interview of the Times to Daniele Luttazzi at cosmogony Linux

mag

21

interview of the Times to Daniele Luttazzi

Category: cosmosofia | Leave to Comment | Leave to Comment

Article got out from the well-known publishing "Micromega"

Luttazzi: I, to the internment mediatico in Berlusconi's Italy

.
Some days ago a journalist of the Times, Lucy Bannerman, has asked Luttazzi for an interview. To follow the article how published by the Times on May 16 with only a little part of the declarations of Luttazzi (those that look after Italian us more from close up).

Please explain how you were sued by Berlusconi and why?
In the March 2001 I was leading with success (7 millions and spectators' means) my night satiric talk-show on Rai2 entitled "Satyricon". In a thrust I interviewed a then unknown journalist, Mark Travaglio, who had published one month a book about no which he was talking. The book was called “the smell of the money“ and was regarding the mysterious origins of the economic empire of Berlusconi. We talked about the facts emerged in the process to Marcello Dell' Utri, right arm of Berlusconi, Strength founder Italy (Berlusconi's party) and ex-head of Publitalia (the concession of Berlusconi's publicity). Il libro s’intitolava “L’odore dei soldi“ e riguardava le origini misteriose dell’impero economico di Berlusconi. Parlammo dei fatti emersi nel processo a Marcello Dell’Utri, braccio destro di Berlusconi, fondatore di Forza Italia (il partito di Berlusconi) ed ex-capo di Publitalia (la concessionaria di pubblicità di Berlusconi).
Berlusconi did cause for defamation to me, to Travaglio, to Rai and to the director of Rai2 Carlo Freccero who with courage had sent in wave the interview. At me Berlusconi wanted 20 milliard lire. Four years after that interview, Marcello Dell' Utri has been convicted in first degree to nine years of prison of external competition in association of the Mafia. (Of the Utri it is not in prison, nevertheless: he has become a senator of Berlusconi's party). in 2005 I have won the cause and Berlusconi has been sentenced to pay 100mila Euro of legal expenses. Quattro anni dopo quell’intervista, Marcello Dell’Utri è stato condannato in primo grado a nove anni di carcere per concorso esterno in associazione mafiosa. (Dell’Utri non è in carcere, però: è diventato senatore del partito di Berlusconi.) Nel 2005 ho vinto la causa e Berlusconi è stato condannato a pagare 100mila euro di spese legali.
Together with Berlusconi, they made to me cause also Mediaset (5 milliard lire), Fininvest (5 milliard lire) and It forces Italy (11 milliard lire). I have won all the processes. That interview was not defaming anybody. It was informing in correct way. Quell’intervista non diffamava nessuno. Informava in modo corretto.

What kind of effect did the lawsuits have on your career?
In the June 2001, Berlusconi won the political elections becoming a head of the government. In 2002, in state visit in Bulgaria, Berlusconi pronounced the notorious “Bulgarian edict”: he said to the print that I and another two journalists (Enzo Biagi, Walter Italian Cronkite; and) we had made Michele Santoro a “criminal use” of the state TV and he was hoping that this was not repeating himself. I, Biagi and Santoro were cancelled by the palimpsests: the managers Rai (named by the political majority berlusconiana) decided not to reconfirm "autonomously" our programs TV. They justified the thing as “publishing choice”. Since then I have not been able to do programs TV again in Rai. Twenty set at zero years of artistic activity. The Bulgarian edict, which for me is still in course in Rai, hampers two freedom: mine of expressing myself and that one of the public of listening to me. This is a censure and is unacceptable. Imagine Gordon Brown who does cause to comical Paul Merton because it does not accept it! Besides the long processes oppress you economically and psychologically. At last, I keep on reciting my satiric monologues in theatre, but as I am not any more in TV and when Berlusconi was my adversary, it is less and less the theatres that decide to put me in poster, even though I always do all of it exhausted. The problem is a politician. It is a McCarthyism. disse alla stampa che io e altri due giornalisti (Enzo Biagi, il Walter Cronkite italiano; e Michele Santoro) avevamo fatto un “uso criminoso” della tv di Stato e lui si augurava che questo non si ripetesse. Io, Biagi e Santoro venimmo cancellati dai palinsesti: i dirigenti Rai (nominati dalla maggioranza politica berlusconiana) decisero “autonomamente” di non riconfermare i nostri programmi tv. Giustificarono la cosa come “scelta editoriale”. Da allora io non sono più potuto tornare a fare programmi tv in Rai. Vent’anni di attività artistica azzerati. L’editto bulgaro, che per me è ancora in corso in Rai, impedisce due libertà: la mia di esprimermi e quella del pubblico di ascoltarmi. Questa è censura ed è inaccettabile. Immagina Gordon Brown che fa causa al comico Paul Merton perchè non lo gradisce! Inoltre i lunghi processi ti vessano economicamente e psicologicamente. Infine, continuo a recitare i miei monologhi satirici in teatro, ma siccome non sono più in tv ed essendo Berlusconi un mio avversario, sono sempre meno i teatri che decidono di mettermi in cartellone, nonostante io faccia sempre il tutto esaurito. Il problema è politico. E’ maccartismo.

To what extent did your example discourage other satirists/journalists/commentators from criticising Berlusconi?
At the point that does not exist any more a satire program in the Italian TV. In Rai, but also to Mediaset, to La7 and on Sky comical programs go to wave where at most Berlusconi seizes himself around for superfluous things (his face-lift, his height) but not for those heavy (the depenalization of the falsehood in budget, the huge conflict of interests, the law Alfano thanks to which it cannot be tried). Three years ago, Sky asked for Italy of meeting me. I proposed a satiric Tg. They asked me how I would have reacted if they had cut to the assembling some beats. I answered him that it would have hampered the contract to him. They have disappeared. As for La7, my new program TV "Decameron" (2007) has been interrupted to the fifth thrust, after I had recorded the monologue of the sixth thrust, a satire on Ratzinger's encyclic. Tre anni fa, Sky Italia chiese di incontrarmi. Proposi un Tg satirico. Mi chiesero come avrei reagito se avessero tagliato al montaggio qualche battuta. Gli risposi che il contratto glielo avrebbe impedito. Sono spariti. Quanto a La7, il mio nuovo programma tv “Decameron” (2007) è stato interrotto alla quinta puntata, dopo che avevo registrato il monologo della sesta puntata, una satira sull’enciclica di Ratzinger.

The satire, the Aristofane times, gives trouble because it expresses an opinion about the facts, laying responsibility. My monologues strike Berlusconi but also the organised religion and the nonexistent opposition of the PD, included the scandals in which there are involved managers of left side (the case Unipol). That is why also the opposition here itself disinteressa to the freedom of the satire in TV, which is a freedom of the democracy. Rai3, whose managers are of left side, he has ever not even asked me for of returning in TV, in these years. The power, in Italy, is subdivided between clan of right hand and of left hand. Recent scandals have shown how these clans reach an agreement often on the management of the public thing, at local level and at national level. The same type of agreement precedes the appointments of the managers Rai. The result is that the substantial democracy is corrupt. Ecco perché anche l’opposizione qua si disinteressa alla libertà della satira in tv, che è libertà della democrazia. Neppure Rai3, i cui dirigenti sono di sinistra, mi ha mai chiesto di tornare in tv, in questi anni. Il potere, in Italia, è suddiviso fra clan di destra e di sinistra. Scandali recenti hanno mostrato come questi clan si mettono spesso d’accordo sulla gestione della cosa pubblica, a livello locale e a livello nazionale. Lo stesso tipo di accordo precede le nomine dei dirigenti Rai. Il risultato è che la democrazia sostanziale è corrotta.

Michele Santoro, journalist of left side, has returned in Rai thanks to a judge who has reintegrated it in his place of work (Santoro was dependent Rai when it was cancelled, I no), but in his program must always to accomodate some right hand exponents. It pretends to be discounted in other words Santoro should be controlled and contradicted in his journalistic activity why disliked to Berlusconi. Is not it humiliating? On the other hand, a berlusconiano journalist, Clemente J. Mimun, when he became a director of the Tg1 Rai distinguished himself for heavy frauds journalistic, all favourable ones to Berlusconi: between other, it took the sonorous one out to Berlusconi who was giving from the kapò to the europarliamentarian's Shultz, did not give Berlusconi's notice that had defined the murder of Of Antona “an accounts rule on the left”, and in 2004 a delegates' public added to the assembling applauding UNO to Berlusconi who in fact was talking to the UNO in a semiempty hall. The delegates' public was applauding Kofi Annan. It was another film! A clamorous falsehood! This in the principal Tg of the Italian TV. Mimun was coming from Mediaset and there it has returned. The present Rai is full of managers who come from Mediaset, fifth true columns. One year ago, the telephone interceptions have shown as these managers had agreed with those of Mediaset for a programming that was favouring Berlusconi in occasion of the funerals of Woytila and concomitant elections. The government Berlusconi in the meantime has proposed a law that forbids the publication of the telephone interceptions! If this law had been done ten years ago, nobody would know the heaviest political, economic and sporting scandals of the recent Italian history. Non è umiliante? Per contro, un giornalista berlusconiano, Clemente J. Mimun, quando diventò direttore del Tg1 Rai si segnalò per gravi frodi giornalistiche, tutte favorevoli a Berlusconi: fra l’altro, tolse il sonoro a Berlusconi che dava del kapò all’europarlamentare Shultz, non diede la notizia di Berlusconi che aveva definito l’assassinio di D’Antona “un regolamento di conti a sinistra”, e nel 2004 aggiunse al montaggio un pubblico di delegati ONU plaudente a Berlusconi che in realtà parlava all’ONU in una sala semivuota. Il pubblico di delegati applaudiva Kofi Annan. Era un altro filmato! Un falso clamoroso! Questo nel Tg principale della tv italiana. Mimun veniva da Mediaset e lì è tornato. La Rai attuale è piena di dirigenti che vengono da Mediaset, vere quinte colonne. Un anno fa, le intercettazioni telefoniche hanno mostrato come questi dirigenti si fossero accordati con quelli di Mediaset per una programmazione che favorisse Berlusconi in occasione dei funerali di Woytila e delle concomitanti elezioni. Il governo Berlusconi nel frattempo ha proposto una legge che proibisce la pubblicazione delle intercettazioni telefoniche! Se questa legge fosse stata fatta dieci anni fa, nessuno conoscerebbe gli scandali politici, economici e sportivi più gravi della storia italiana recente.

What parallels do I give you see between press control in the 1920s/1940s and control of the media in the Berlusconi was?
In the Fascist period of twenty years the only agency of print was that one of the regime, the Agency Stefani. The newspapers were keeping to what was writing the Agency Stefani. The free newspapers were closed and the opponents to the regime were losing the work place, were sent to the internment, were killed. Today they do not kill the opponents, but they send you to the “internment mediatico”: they take out you the spaces of expression that you had and that you had gained with your work. This is the always present threat. I giornali liberi venivano chiusi e gli oppositori al regime perdevano il posto di lavoro, venivano mandati al confino, venivano uccisi. Oggi non uccidono gli oppositori, ma ti mandano al “confino mediatico”: ti tolgono gli spazi di espressione che avevi e che ti eri conquistato col tuo lavoro. Questa è la minaccia sempre presente.

Another threat is tied to the huge conflict of interests of Berlusconi. It has companies TV and enterprises of assurance and of advertising and cinematographic distribution. This pollutes the freedom of the market. A recent inquiry demonstrated what, when it is to the government Berlusconi, many companies there has taken out publicity with the nets Rai to move them on that Berlusconi's Mediaset. Berlusconi besides checks the economic politics and the secret services. His influence spreads on EACH sector of the Italian life. It is a power of huge blackmail. One of few newspapers of true opposition, the manifesto, always documentatissimo and corrected, has difficulty to survive because the Italian companies do not buy advertising spaces. There is another type of obstructing. It is not astonished then that the passes of almost totality of the print and of the Italian TV is plushy. The recent case of Veronica Lario and Noemata has demonstrated once for all the existence of a kind of Agency the contemporary, readiest Stefani to be obeyed the demands of the Head and to massacre the victim of turn (his wife, in this case). Between journalists and heads, the list of the pollution berlusconiano is long. Questo inquina la libertà del mercato. Un’inchiesta recente ha dimostrato che, da quando è al governo Berlusconi, molte aziende hanno tolto pubblicità dalle reti Rai per spostarle su quelle Mediaset di Berlusconi. Berlusconi inoltre controlla la politica economica e i servizi segreti. La sua influenza si estende su OGNI settore della vita italiana. E’ un potere di ricatto enorme. Uno dei pochi giornali di opposizione vera, il manifesto, sempre documentatissimo e corretto, stenta a sopravvivere perché le aziende italiane non comprano spazi pubblicitari. Ecco un altro tipo di strozzatura. Non stupisce allora che i passi della quasi totalità della stampa e della tv italiana siano felpati. Il caso recente di Veronica Lario e Noemi ha dimostrato una volta per tutte l’esistenza di una sorta di Agenzia Stefani contemporanea, prontissima a ubbidire alle esigenze del Capo e a massacrare la vittima di turno (sua moglie, in questo caso). Fra giornalisti e testate, la lista dell’inquinamento berlusconiano è lunga.

Let' s focus on the houses of Noemata Joy. How has Berlusconi used his ownership and influence of the national press to protect himself from any political damage?
In 24 hours the answer berlusconiana has been massive and on all the possible fronts. It has gone to Rai1 to the night program "Door to door" of Bruno Vespa, where it has told his version without the contradictory minimum, accusing the wife, and availing itself of the opportunity to do an advertising spot on the initiatives of the government in point of help for the earthquake victims of the Aquila. No present journalist (not even the director of the Messenger of the Evening!) has remembered that 12 milliard helps promised by Berlusconi, the government it has allocated in fact only 4 of them. And in the arch of 24 YEARS! A cruel mockery of which nobody has asked Berlusconi for explanations there presently. I had been between the hosts, this would have been the question, decree reads in April 28 to the hand. The political damage would have been huge and it has been avoided. Nessun giornalista presente (neppure il direttore del Corriere della Sera!) ha ricordato che dei 12 miliardi di aiuti promessi da Berlusconi, il governo ne ha stanziati in realtà solo 4. E nell’arco di 24 ANNI! Una beffa crudele di cui nessuno ha chiesto spiegazioni a Berlusconi lì presente. Ci fossi stato io fra gli ospiti, questa sarebbe stata la domanda, decreto legge del 28 aprile alla mano. Il danno politico sarebbe stato enorme ed è stato evitato.

In these 15 years berlusconiani, few ones in Italy (journalists, satiric authors) have asked him for account of the hundreds of false promises and never maintained. The one who would do it has no access. Who decides about the access? Managing TV of political appointment. Of whom is it the political majority that is the beautiful one and the bad time practically indisturbata? Of Berlusconi, an entrepreneur who, on the grounds of a law of 1957, could not even candidate on the elections, in regular all that of public concessions. The law was planning and trying to hamper the interests conflict. That now there is and it is huge. The damage was done then, itself letting to Berlusconi be proposed as a candidate. The whole rest, understood Burlesquoni, is only a consequence of that initial illegality. Why was it let him do? I do not know it, but I see the effects it: a Country in which there is in force a “Fascism quarrel” that the government does not like for anything, with shared xenofobi and racists. Chi decide sull’accesso? Dirigenti tv di nomina politica. Di chi è la maggioranza politica che fa il bello e il cattivo tempo praticamente indisturbata? Di Berlusconi, un imprenditore che, in base a una legge del 1957, non poteva neppure candidarsi alle elezioni, in quanto titolare di concessioni pubbliche. La legge prevedeva e cercava di impedire il conflitto di interessi. Che adesso c’è ed è enorme. Il danno venne fatto allora, permettendo a Berlusconi di candidarsi. Tutto il resto, Burlesquoni compreso, è solo una conseguenza di quella illegalità iniziale. Perché gli venne permesso di farlo? Non lo so, ma ne vedo gli effetti: un Paese in cui vige un “fascismo lite” che non mi piace per niente, con al governo partiti xenofobi e razzisti.

Another movement, not less important, has been that one of the mouthpiece of Berlusconi, the senator Paolo Bonaiuti, who has undergone called by a meeting the directors of the Catholic periodicals that had criticised Berlusconi. The Catholic vow is important for Berlusconi and to the Catholics type they import the laws berlusconiane in defence of the Catholic private school and economic privileges the exemption of the tax ICI for the buildings of the Catholic clergy in which there unwind commercial activities or the fraud true and own of 8 for thousand. The day after, great prominence to the fact that, thanks to the divorce of Veronica Lario, Berlusconi will be able to be readmitted to the sacrament of the communion during the setting! Il giorno dopo, grande risalto al fatto che, grazie al divorzio da Veronica Lario, Berlusconi potrà essere riammesso al sacramento della comunione durante la messa!

When news first broke of his divorce and "underage" Lariò s allegations regarding, international observers speculated that the story might destroy the Rider. But In fact, he remains as popular as ever. Why? Why?
Because his counter-story was the swiftest and pervasivo, while his wife (the victim) has been hissed and insulted like one somewhat of coupon and like horned (I "free", publishing of director Feltri). The propaganda of the Agency Stefani works and Berlusconi it is a master. His wife knows it thirty years and an ill man has defined it. There is another question that I would have asked to Berlusconi, if I had been a host of "Door to door": about what sickness is his wife, president talking? Sua moglie lo conosce da trent’anni e lo ha definito un uomo malato. Ecco un’altra domanda che avrei fatto a Berlusconi, se fossi stato ospite di “Porta a porta”: di che malattia sta parlando sua moglie, presidente?

What altars the implications of the Berlusconi regime on the long-term future of italian democracy?
The damage has already been done. We are a not completely free Country. The Italians have forgotten that as citizens have rights and duties. And decades will be needed in order that the Italians learn to respect again the laws, like natural era instead in the years go on also thanks to the example of the great politicians of then: De Gasperi, Einaudi, The Malfa, The Pyre, Dossetti, Berlinguer, Pertini, Scalfaro. Gli italiani hanno disimparato che come cittadini hanno dei diritti e dei doveri. E occorreranno decenni perché gli italiani imparino di nuovo a rispettare le leggi, come era naturale invece negli anni passati anche grazie all’esempio dei grandi politici di allora: De Gasperi, Einaudi, La Malfa, La Pira, Dossetti, Berlinguer, Pertini, Scalfaro.

You won your houses in court. What kind of reaction did you get?
The newspapers have talked about it without too much prominence in the internal pages (it was still news bombs: he imagines Paul Merton who wins the cause against Gordon Brown!), while the notice of Berlusconi's action against had been given of to me in first page.

Do I give you hope to return to TV?
Obviously. The TV is not a hobby: it is my work and there is a numerous public who is crazy about me (and I for them). The McCarthyism is immoral and illegal. è il mio lavoro e c’è un pubblico numeroso che stravede per me (e io per loro). Il maccartismo è immorale e illegale.

Under which circumstance, do I give you believe satires can return to italian popular cultures?
The Italian satire it is never a going. It has only disappeared to strength from the TV. But the censors forget a thing: the time is from our side (Mick Jagger). Ma i censori dimenticano una cosa: il tempo è dalla nostra parte (Mick Jagger).